Ok, so I went to bed last night thinking everything was fine and woke up to the DCEU in turmoil. It was honestly like that bit in the community, and it’s one of the wildest stories to hit the movie and comic book communities in the last 10 years. I’ve accepted at this point that if I’m going to be a DC fan, then I’m going to have a bad time, and it looks like things are over. The Hollywood Reporter dropped a bombshell last night and broke down how Gunn is likely wiping the slate clean in order to start the DCU off with a fresh start. He’s throwing the baby out with the bathwater, and by the looks of it, everything is getting shelved in order to start off a new 10-year plan that could be announced as early as next week. We have some updates on this that you won’t get in any other video due to some people starting to speak out after what just happened.
So stick around until the end, and obviously, I’d love to hear your thoughts, so make sure you drop a comment and also hit the thumbs up and subscribe to stay locked in for any updates that we get.
With that out of the way, I’m your host, Paul; now let’s get into the video.
Early Rumours Of The DCEU Being Over
Ok, so over the last week, things have been looking a bit suspicious on Twitter. Reports flew about how Black Adam was a bomb, and The Rock replied to this to show that it had actually made money for the company. Gal Gadot also put out a tweet talking about getting the Wonder Woman part just yesterday, and in hindsight, urgh, I think we can kind of guess what this was about.
Knowing what we now know, it is possible that Gadot was putting out a post in order to rally fans together and show how popular she is as Wonder Woman in order to keep her job. This looks like one of those ‘tweets taken before a disaster,” and I think she clearly knew something was up.
The Hollywood reporter stated that Wonder Woman 3 is not moving forward in its current incarnation and that it’s dead in the water right now, like, uh, like some suicide squad team member. F**k sake. But is it a weasel? Gadot may come back, but as we get into the video, I’ll go through why this might not even be likely.
If Gadot is out, then no one is safe, and yeah, if you’re going to be a DC fan, you’re going to have a bad time.
Now to quote the reporter.
Sources say that Jenkins recently submitted her treatment, co-written with Geoff Johns, and that Gunn and Safran, as well as Warner Bros. Pictures co-chairs and co-CEOs Michael De Luca and Pamela Abdy, broke the news to the filmmaker, telling her the project, as it stood, did not fit in with the new (but still unfolding) plans. Jenkins directed and co-wrote the previous two movies, starring Gal Gadot and released in 2017 and 2020, respectively. No decision has been made about next steps.
And while costs are not a factor — insiders say that DC Studios will not have any overburdensome financial restrictions — the studio could end up saving tens of millions of dollars by not making the third installment. Gadot, according to sources, was on track for a $20 million payday for Wonder Woman 3, while Jenkins would have received $12 million. Those figures don’t include any possible backend bonuses.
So there are two things going on here: the movie is going to cost a s**tload, and I don’t think that the company thinks there’s enough goodwill around Jenkins and Gadot to make this a sure-fire hit after Wonder Woman 1984. Geoff Johns has an almost toxic aura that surrounds him as well, and it makes sense that they wouldn’t want anything attached to him.
I think he has written some great comic books in the past, but the guys have been absolutely terrible at running things, and he’s pissed off so much talent on both the comic and movie sides that it’s baffling he was even part of Wonder Woman 3 in the first place.
On top of this, the reporter also talks about how they are likely shutting down Man of Steel 2.
Cavill was back, but now he’s apparently out again, with no contracts signed and no plans at the moment to integrate him further. I think out of all of the stories that this is the biggest blow because it was so good seeing him come back for Black Adam. He also just left the Witcher to possibly focus more on being supes again, and if they drop the ball with him on that, I think it’s going to be difficult for me to really become attached to anything else.
DC fans have been through a lot recently, and over the last couple of years we’ve had
The Snyderverse, then the Snyderverse over, then Cavill and Affleck out, Heirachy about to change, then Snyderverse could be back, then Cul-de-sac comments, then the Heirachy about to change, then them saying we are going to tell multiverse stories now, another Heirachy change with the discovery merger, Batgirl cancelled, a new ten-year plan, then Cavill and Affleck back, and then f**k.
I think overall that there have been so many changes over the last few years that this needs to be the last one, and if it isn’t then I can’t see anyone caring. It’s difficult to get attached to a plan when we’ve seen countless times how the plan can change, and I think this is also another reason why they’re wiping the slate clean. They just don’t want this stuff affecting their universe, but it also means that the fans who love that old stuff are going to lose a lot too.
Now, along with Cavill, Jason Momoa is apparently out as Aquaman too.
According to the reporter:
These characters are set to cameo in Flash, the highly anticipated time travel adventure movie that is due to release on June 16. Cavill shot his part of the cameo in September. But sources say there is a debate inside the studio about whether or not to keep the cameo and if its inclusion promises something that the studio has no plans to deliver.
A Warners insider cautions that no plans have been finalized and that Flash remains an unlocked picture.
So Cavill is out in the Flash now too.
The Cavill situation is more than a little thorny, as the actor made a cameo in Black Adam, the DC-centric movie released in October. The Monday after the movie opened, Cavill posted a video on Instagram where he announced, “I wanted to make it official — I am back as Superman.”
So that was a f**king lie.
The reporter then went on to state
Andy Muschietti, who directed Flash, even expressed interest in sitting behind the camera for something that would have brought a tone similar to the hopeful and heroic colors of the 1978 movie directed by Richard Donner, considered a benchmark in comic book movies. In fact, the current leadership team at Warner Bros. Pictures — Michael De Luca and Pamela Abdy — did desire one more go-around of the Snyderverse heroes, possibly even another Justice League movie with those actors.
But that was before Gunn and Safran began formulating their new (and still-in-flux) plan.
Now, from what I’ve been told about Aquaman 2, they’ve also cut Ben Affleck’s cameo in that as well. The movie was screened earlier in the week to test audiences, and Affleck was missing from this one, showing that he might be out as well.
There’s also the fact that Momoa talked about how he was doing his dream project as well, and many people have speculated that this could be Lobo. So potentially, we’ll see Aquaman 2 as the last appearance of the character, and then he’ll play Lobo in the DCEU going forward.
Now, the removal of all of these guys clearly has a knock-on effect. I doubt Shazam 2 is going to get a sequel, and the reporter also says that Black Adam 2 is unlikely.
Who Is Going To Be In The New DC Universe?
The Hollywood Reporter says:
Also unlikely is a sequel to Black Adam. Despite the hype surrounding the movie about launching a new corner of DC, a lot of it led by star Dwayne Johnson, the movie has only grossed $385 million worldwide, and insiders at the studio say the movie, which cost more than $190 million to produce (two sources peg the actual cost at $230 million, not including marketing), will be lucky to break even, even considering ancillary revenue. Even if the movie does eke out a minimal profit, any follow-up’s inherent rising costs dim the prospect of a sequel.
Johnson hoped to carve out his own piece of the DC pie, but multiple sources say his playing up of a returning Cavill and his own involvement with DC may not be endearing him to the new management. Johnson and Cavill are both managed by Dany Garcia, who is also Johnson’s producing partner. The perception of Adam turning a profit or not is a controversy now being waged in public, with Johnson tweeting the movie would net over $50 million after a Variety story said the movie would lose over $50 million theatrically.
Now the rock actually posted a tweet this morning in response to someone saying they couldn’t wait to see what was next. He basically said it’s all noise, and though it all sounds doom and gloom at the moment, I really don’t think that Gunn and Safron have anything completely nailed down.
This kinda seems like the Death Throes of the DCEU and those who still want to be involved are throwing out these calls to their fans alongside the reports to show there is support.
The article says:
Part of the plan could entail a truly fresh start and having no baggage from any previous regimes as they set about resetting how DC movies and shows are made. That, however, does not take into account the possible success of movies such as Shazam!, Fury of the Gods (March 17, 2023), on which Safran is a producer, and Blue Beetle (Aug. 18, 2023). Would that plan include forging ahead without the actors who inhabit those characters and recasting them even if those movies prove to be box office hits?
At the end of the day, there are going to be two things that factor into what gets kept and what doesn’t.
The first is whether it can bring a profit or not. Zaslav has been ruthless when cutting films, and Batgirl was shelved for a tax write-off, so he may want to do the same thing with the entire DCEU. If it’s not going to make money, then there is a chance that things can go, and in the case of Black Adam and Wonder Woman 3, I can see why they’re not banking on these being surefire hits. I would love to see Superman vs. Black Adam, but the box office probably has the executives spooked, and they genuinely don’t know what to do.
The other thing holding it back is, like we said, the fact that the DCEU has been through so many different plan changes and visions that it’s a complete mess at the moment. Gunn seems to want to fire a shot and nuke the entire lot because he knows that it’s probably a losing battle and that every single movie that comes out will have to deal with some form of backlash. Whether it’s from people who want the Snyder verse back or people who don’t like the new direction, there will be some form of controversy, so I can see why they’ve just decided to scrap the entire thing and move away from the bad taste that’s in a lot of people’s mouths. Personally, I’d love to see the Snyderverse restored, but any hope that I have for it always dwindles away when I hear stuff like this. There’s hope every so often, but maybe Gunn is just like, “Nah, it’s done.” Focus on this rather than having people run wild with theories and point out how it could be coming back.
Now Gunn has an attachment to the old slate too, with Margot Robbie’s Harley Quinn tied to it, which is then tied in with his suicide squad. There’s of course Amanda Waller as well and he may even end up ditching his own things like peacemaker in order to clear the slate.
Man could be his own Amanda Waller is taking out his own team if they don’t fit in with the plan. I think it’s bad for optics if he cancels the other stuff but not his own, and yeah, just imagine how much this shakeup entails.
However, he could also just end up keeping them in place and, after the flash, be like, “Well, that stuff still happened, but there’s a new universe with certain actors that I want to use going forward.’
Now, I don’t think that the Reedusverse will be affected by this and that they can still do a Batman 2 and a Joker 2.
The article says:
One part that the Gunn-Safran agenda seems likely not to touch, at least for now, is the Matt Reeves Batman universe, in which Robert Pattinson dons the cowl of the Caped Crusader. Reeves is writing the sequel to The Batman, which opened on March 4. The filmmaker is also overseeing the launch of two Batman series that spin out of his movie, including The Penguin.
Those movies did really well and were widely accepted by the fandom because they weren’t attached to the DCEU. Potentially, Gunn has seen that and realized that’s the route to take, but as of yet, I don’t think anyone knows for sure.
And that’s the point I want to hammer home. Even stuff like Wonder Woman 3 has been rejected because it doesn’t fit into the upcoming plans, but there is the potential that they can rework it and get it in line with that.
Or I could just be completely kidding myself as per usual and holding onto this hope, which Gunn definitely doesn’t seem to want us to do.
This could be the biggest cull since the suicide squad, and I genuinely think it’s impossible to say right now exactly what’s happening.
Even the actors don’t seem to know for definite, and with shocks like this constantly coming out of the blue, it’s impossible to predict what’s around the corner.
Gal Gadot said she can’t wait to share what’s next, so there is that hope that it’s not all scrapped. This story definitely hasn’t finished, and there could even be some stuff dropping after this video that debunks it and clears stuff up.
The heirachy has changed, but whether it’s for better or worse, we don’t know. Now if they do drop a big plan this month that scraps all the Snyderverse actors and the upcoming universe plans, then I think it’s going to be so difficult to market the upcoming DCEU films.
Their lineup also includes Shazam 2, The Flash, and Aquman 2. The latter are marred with controversy because of Ezra Miller and Amber Heard, and if they’re not even building to anything, I can see people skipping them completely. It’s a bad idea to market your comic book movie by saying none of this matters, and fans have become accustomed to having to see movies they wouldn’t normally see because there’s an overarching storyline.
Let’s be real, Captain Marvel wouldn’t have broken a billion if it wasn’t jumping off the back of Infinity War and going into Endgame. I think a lot of the issues with the DCEU lie in the fact that no one cares about these “C” list heroes because no one cares about the overarching storyline due to there not really being one.
Now Grace Randolph has been saying this for weeks, and even after Cavill popped up in Black Adam, she said things weren’t locked. Her video talks about a lot of things that I recommend you check out, and personally, I think that they’re probably going to end up scrapping a lot of this slate in order to just start afresh.
Now obviously backlash is going to come from this, and already there are things trending like #FireJamesGunn alongside comments like make sure you like and subscribe.
Now how would I handle this?
Will The Flash Be The DCEU’s Reset?
Well I know youre watching James, so personally yeah, get the, get the notepad out, write this down.
I would have Flashpoint set up a big multiversal event and then do a final Justice League film with as many characters as you can get. Have it against Darkseid or something, a crisis on infinite earths, for all I care, and then just end on that and start again.
People aren’t going to forget the last ten years of movies, and I think it makes more sense to close the book on the movie universe with a movie rather than us just getting reports coming out like ‘the DCEU is over…and we killed your entire family.’
Now warner bros arent really making much money at the moment so whether they’d even invest in something like that remains to be seen. I think a big reason wonder woman 3 was scrapped was because of the money theyd have to pay out and if it didnt turn a profit its another further L to them.
So that’s just me hoping for that, and I doubt they’d actually do it.
I just feel kind of bad for not only the fans but also the actors. They’ve stuck with this universe, and Cavill even dropped out of The Witcher 3 for this. I know there was some stuff about him being unhappy with the scripts and how they weren’t really like the books, but I think that the Superman thing would’ve definitely swayed him too.
So yeah, just a big overhaul by the sounds of it, and I’d also like to hear your casting ideas for what you’d like to see going forward.
Grace mentioned that people would love to see Anya Taylor-Joy as Harley Quinn, and I think that would be pretty solid.
Do you think they should just use the Reevesverse as a launchpad? Do you think they should start from scratch? Are you heartbroken? Comment below and let me know.
We’re running a competition right now and giving away 3 copies of House of the Dragon Season 1 on December 15. All you have to do to be in with a chance of winning is like the video, make sure you subscribe with notifications on, and drop a comment below with your thoughts on the episode. We pick the comments at random at the end of the month, and the winners of the last one are on screen right now, so message me at @heavyspoilers if that’s you.
If you want something else to watch, then make sure you check out our breakdown of the perfect scene in Spider-Man: Homecoming. We break down the entire thing, so it’s definitely worth checking out if you want to know more.
With that out of the way, thank you for sitting through the video; I’ve been Paul, and I’ll see you next time. Take care, Peace